Healing From Childhood Trauma and Love Addiction
In this couragous and vulnerable conversation, Elaine shares her personal experiences with relationships, trauma, and the journey towards healing. The discussion delves into the impact of childhood trauma on adult relationships, the search for love and connection, and the challenges of setting boundaries. Elaine reflects on her love addiction and the importance of safety in relationships, while also exploring her therapy experiences and the role of community support. The conversation emphasizes the need for self-discovery and healing as essential steps towards building healthy relationships.
takeaways
Elaine discusses her love addiction and its impact on her relationships.
Childhood trauma significantly affects adult relationship dynamics.
Setting boundaries is crucial for maintaining healthy relationships.
Elaine emphasizes the importance of safety in relationships.
Community support plays a vital role in healing.
Therapy experiences can vary greatly and impact personal growth.
Self-discovery is essential for understanding relationship needs.
Elaine reflects on the challenges of navigating love and connection.
Trust issues stem from past trauma and require healing.
Exploring different relationship dynamics can lead to personal growth.
Chapters
00:00Exploring Relationship Dynamics and Trauma
06:08Attachment Styles and Patterns in Relationships
13:07Community, Anger, and Forgiveness
18:06The Impact of Love Addiction
24:56Healing and Setting Boundaries
30:28Navigating Trust and Safety in Relationships
46:43Understanding Trauma and Its Impact on Relationships
46:43Introduction to the Podcast and Relationship App
47:21Understanding Trauma and Its Impact on Relationships
Transcript
Jennifer Lehr (00:00)
When you have trauma, you've got to start unraveling some of that and figuring out. when this happened and I had this reaction, what's happening in yourself, what part of you felt,
threatened because the reaction of pushing away, don't want you anymore, is what you do when you're trying to protect yourself.
Elaine and Elaine is going to be talking to us about her relationship and love experiences. I'm really happy to have you here today. And I would like to know when I bring up the word relationship, what comes up for you?
Elaine (00:44)
Wow, basically my whole life has been revolved around romantic relationships or dysfunctional familial relationships. Starting with my was a heavy drug user and things got really bad in middle school for me, so about 10. And I went through a fracture with him and it just went from me seeing him to suddenly not.
and I live on a very small island. So with a restraining order against your own parent, when I would see him in public and I didn't know what to do, so I would kind of cloak myself in invisibility. And for some reason he would never recognize me. So I've been connecting a lot of that into how I react.
in my relationships now from about 18 to I'm 32 now and I'm still having the same kind of patterns come up
I'm really starting to connect all of the chemical processes of my body to past trauma and how my brain has really been wired from childhood to deal with relationships. And I'm really at a point now where I would like to change what's going on so that I have positive healthy relationships.
Jennifer Lehr (02:07)
for.
Right.
So you have a pretty, sounds like you have a pretty severe trauma history and you're still, how do I put it, untangling it and figuring it out at this time. Are you currently in a relationship that you feel is functional?
Elaine (02:20)
Yes.
It's been about a week and a half since my last partner and I went separate ways because a lot of the same things were happening where we would start to argue and I would just shut down and I can't make eye contact, I can barely speak and for me I'm a big talker and so for me to feel unable to speak I'm really like what's going on?
Jennifer Lehr (02:45)
Okay.
So your trauma response is just your whole body shuts down.
Elaine (03:05)
Yes. Yeah, I just really care.
Jennifer Lehr (03:07)
and you don't have
any control over it, sounds like.
Jennifer Lehr (03:13)
Elaine's trauma response is to break eye contact, pull into herself and shut down,
When this happens, she's moved into a survival part of herself. She doesn't have in that moment the internal resources to stay connected because she is in a traumatized state of mind, meaning her childhood trauma and possibly other trauma has reactivated
Elaine (03:38)
Yeah, exactly. I try to push myself out of that and really, with my partner that I was just with, I was trying to express my needs. I have two kids and I really hold my role as a mother to be the main part of my identity. And that was kind of being, you know, faulted.
Jennifer Lehr (03:59)
Yeah.
Elaine (04:04)
So I was really trying to hold my ground. And that was where the arguments were stemming from. And so instead of following through the conversation and still holding my ground, it would be just leave me alone. I don't even want you to exist anymore. And that also stems from that my kid's father committed suicide about a month and a half after we broke up three years ago.
Jennifer Lehr (04:10)
Oh
Elaine (04:32)
and
Jennifer Lehr (04:33)
because she isn't able to hold her ground and doesn't have the internal resources to stand up for herself, at least not all the time, in a
her survival strategies emerge to protect her. And she hopes the threat to her equilibrium will just go away.
Jennifer Lehr (04:51)
and that was probably traumatic too.
Elaine (04:54)
That was the worst case scenario for that situation. He was a really bad alcoholic. As soon as I had gotten pregnant with our first child, he switched from being a caring, you know, attentive partner to telling me I'm too emotional, I cry too much, and basically just lowering me in his hierarchy of who he deems
Jennifer Lehr (04:59)
Wow.
Elaine (05:22)
necessary to spend his energy on. But we still remained in the same household for four years together. And then slowly separating lives within a household. started sleeping in his own room and not spending time. And for me, just the shutting down and avoiding that conversation was just natural.
Jennifer Lehr (05:26)
Okay.
Elaine (05:48)
but then when it got to too much,
Jennifer Lehr (05:49)
So.
Jennifer Lehr (05:50)
She has also experienced what is very common with people who were in some ways abused or victimized as children, and that's she falls in love with people who later become very critical and abusive and is not capable of emotionally supporting her.
Jennifer Lehr (06:08)
I'm going to switch the topic a little bit, but it ties in. And I want to know if you know what your attachment style is.
Elaine (06:17)
I am a very romantic, affectionate partner and I just kind of, within a week, I am like, love you, this is amazing, let's do everything together, where obviously this is fate, but then once the little cracks and fissures start to come up, I really bounce between this is never gonna work, leave me alone,
and then trying to repair that with, I love you so much, you're so amazing. And I tell for a partner, that's probably hard to get both sides.
Jennifer Lehr (06:55)
because her feelings fluctuate moving from a feeling of in love and awe to whoever her person is and disappointment, despair and the desire to escape from what seems impossible.
She gets caught in a cycle. And this is a cycle that includes love addiction. So she moves from merging with her partner to disconnection and pushing that person away. So when this happens, first there's a triggering event. Something happens that the disappointment or the threat, the feeling of not being safe.
And this would initiate her thoughts, her feelings, her behavior.
Eventually this would calm down or subside and she would try to fix it by being extra loving because she doesn't actually want to be abandoned. She doesn't actually want to hurt anyone.
sooner or later a trigger will occur again And the cycle most likely will repeat.
Jennifer Lehr (07:56)
is it accurate to say that part of you really craves connection and part of you is sort of afraid of it?
Elaine (08:03)
Yeah, I am so triggered by any person that I find attractive into being, wow, maybe they're my soulmate. And it gets annoying because I'm just walking around and living my life and just people will come by and I'm like, this is the person that's going to change my whole life and save me from loneliness. But it can't be everyone.
Jennifer Lehr (08:31)
Yeah, and that would just indicate that you're really starving to find a good connection, that you really, really want a good connection. And yet the people you're being attracted to probably aren't the right people. Do you have a sense of the people, the pattern you have in terms of the people you're attracted to?
Jennifer Lehr (08:50)
People who haven't received what they needed as children often have parts of themselves that are starving for love and they will compromise themselves to get it.
They might compromise themselves by falling for someone they don't really know or putting up with a situation that's not great. So in other words, the love feeling is so strong, it trumps the fact that they do not know this person very well or their character.
Elaine (09:19)
really the people that are attracted to me that have the confidence to ask me to be in a relationship or to spend enough time with me that I'm like, well, we should just be in a relationship because this is the only person that wants to be around me this much.
Jennifer Lehr (09:35)
Okay, so and how would you describe these people as a type? Is there a pattern for these people?
Elaine (09:42)
They usually are addicts, whether it be marijuana or in my younger years, my partners were usually alcoholics or heavy drug users. Yeah, that's definitely, and I think for me, was just that was the easy partner that wouldn't judge me or, yeah, I didn't have to live up.
to expectations very much. So I could act erratically in my connections with them because maybe I just didn't think highly of them subconsciously.
Jennifer Lehr (10:11)
Right.
So they weren't grounded enough to hold you accountable for your actions or they were lost in their own addiction. So there was a lot of space for you to move wherever you moved in terms of your behavior.
Elaine (10:41)
Yeah.
Jennifer Lehr (10:41)
and your feelings. So the people that picked you, the universe picked for you in a sense. mean, you know, there's always reasons that we have the patterns we have and we have to make internal changes to get these patterns to change. And then we still have work to do because the work is, I mean, I have a trauma history myself and the amount of work I've had to do to become, know, to have a really good relationship has been enormous.
And that's just part of the deal if you have a trauma history. There's just no way around it. But you're on the path. You're looking at yourself. You're questioning what is happening? What are my triggers? Why am I reacting this way? And you're also, I hear you making connections between what you did with your father, which was shut him out because you had to in a sense. And what you do when your partner, past partners,
behave in a way that's too difficult for you.
Elaine (11:39)
Yeah, definitely. Exactly. And I have noticed that my romanticizing people is for me to get this rush of happiness chemical connection chemical that feels very similar to an addiction of substances. Because I don't I don't see
Jennifer Lehr (11:40)
Does that seem right?
Right. Well,
there is such a thing as a love addiction.
Elaine (12:06)
Yeah, for sure. And I think as a young kid growing up in the 90s, we were overloaded with culture of heteronormative relationships that for kids, they don't need to know about romance quite yet. They need to know about community relationships and familial structure, but they don't need partners. I mean, I think my first boyfriend was second grade.
Jennifer Lehr (12:07)
I'm not going
Elaine (12:35)
you know, when I'm seven years old and we took it seriously then, you know, and I never really got over that need for wanting to have a partner. And then being bisexual too, I'm like, do I even truly like having a male partner? Or am I just so used to it?
Jennifer Lehr (12:42)
Okay.
Elaine (12:59)
Even if it's not the right choice.
Jennifer Lehr (13:00)
Right.
Right, so even at a ground level, you're not sure exactly who you are.
I wanted to ask you, you mentioned embarrassment therapy. Is this hard for you to do this talk with me, to talk with me?
Jennifer Lehr (13:15)
not sure what Elaine means by embarrassment therapy and I want to check in and see if she's uncomfortable talking to me. I want to make sure she feels safe because even though this is not therapy, she's talking about personal and vulnerable topics with me and I'm very aware that she has a trauma history and that holding a safe space is necessary.
Elaine (13:35)
No, it's very exciting because I have not done a lot of therapy. I have had bad experiences with therapists before being very judgmental about my life. And I really know that there's people... Sorry, I gotta stop.
Jennifer Lehr (13:48)
Mm-hmm.
Elaine (13:54)
Okay, sorry locking her outside.
Jennifer Lehr (13:58)
Okay. So you said you had a lot of therapists that weren't supportive.
Elaine (14:06)
Yeah, and I didn't think that they had the right capacity to hear what I wanted to work on. And they would kind of just focus on the negative aspects or judging parts of my life that seemed very normal to me, like breastfeeding my son. had a woman therapist roll her eyes that I was still nursing at two.
And so immediately that broke trust. I'm like, this person obviously can't help me if they can't see me.
Jennifer Lehr (14:41)
Right.
Elaine (14:44)
have just, I've stopped trying to see therapists because a lot of it was online just through messaging and it felt like I was talking to a robot and I think my friends have been my greatest therapy because they really do hold space and that's
What I judged my relationships on is, is this person holding space for me in a really nurturing way? Because I do have that. I know what it feels like from my friends. But if I don't get that from a partner, then what is the point? And it's hard to find that out within a week of knowing someone, whether they can hold that space or not in a safe way.
Jennifer Lehr (15:17)
Well.
Right.
Right, well, so there's two components here, because relationships with intimate people are a little different than friendships. You want that really supportive piece that the friendships offer you, 100 % for sure. But relationships always have triggers where you'll get triggered and they'll get triggered. And it's how do you get through those? How do you not turn that into something that feels dangerous or critical or too horrible to bear? And that's picking someone who can listen.
who's curious about your experience, who's probably secure enough in their own life that they could say, that they won't criticize, that they can respect your boundaries. So it's finding, so it doesn't mean you won't get triggered, but it's someone who you can get triggered with. Even if it's difficult, you have the space to work it out because they're reasonable.
Elaine (16:22)
Yeah.
Jennifer Lehr (16:23)
You know, they're not unreasonable. They're like, you're right, I shouldn't have said that. Or, you know, I'm sorry, that was uncalled for. Or, you know, I just got really upset because this triggered me, but I'm calm now and maybe we can talk about it. You know, it's that kind of language that you are looking for because you won't find a relationship that's all bliss. That is not the nature of relationships. They are growth. They're basically cauldrons.
where two people get plunked in and they figure out how to grow. And it can be very messy. So it's figuring out how do I pick someone that I can grow with where we can handle our messes together. Some of that will be your work, which is handling your own triggers and reactivity. And some of it will be having a partner who doesn't go off the rails and get critical on you.
Elaine (16:55)
Mmm.
Yeah, and just really feeling safe. Even when we're fighting. I've had friends that we have yelled at each other or said, hey, this made me feel icky. But I always want to come back to those because I know there's more joy than, you know, the offhand remark. But really thinking deeply
Jennifer Lehr (17:33)
Right, right.
Elaine (17:43)
to about supporting out of love, then the codependency that, you know, just the criticism, the negative emotions, you know, the chaos of the world, I don't want necessarily to be the full weight of the world in one argument.
Jennifer Lehr (17:47)
Yes.
Elaine (18:06)
Yes. Yeah, I have my routine and I have my children take care of. I have my passions, but in a bigger picture, I don't have like a future plan besides just getting my kids raised. Sorry, my dog's being...
Jennifer Lehr (18:09)
and you're strong.
Well, the plan, from my perspective, it sounds like it's great that you're focused on your kids, but also to focus just on healing yourself and being aware that you have an addiction to the in-love feeling, which I had when I was younger. When that faded, I was out, I was gone, I was into the next relationship because that's what kept me going, the in-love feeling. And when there were problems, I didn't have enough of myself.
Elaine (18:41)
Thank
Jennifer Lehr (18:52)
to get through the problems and these people didn't either. And so I'm bailed and moved on to the next person. that happens when we're left with this seeking for love because we didn't get what we needed and we're really searching for love but we don't necessarily have the skillset to maintain it or picking people we can't maintain it with or they're picking you. So what would be...
You know, obviously when that, when you're in that situation, a lot of the focus has to be on healing, on healing yourself, regardless of whether you're in relationships or not, that healing yourself has to be the priority because When you have trauma, you've got to start unraveling some of that and figuring out. when this happened and I had this reaction, what's happening in yourself, what part of you felt,
threatened because the reaction of pushing away, don't want you anymore, is what you do when you're trying to protect yourself.
Elaine (19:55)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Lehr (19:57)
And what, so just think of an example, you don't have to say it, but like think of an example where you said, no, go away, leave me inside yourself, whether you said it physically or not. What was, what were you trying to protect?
Elaine (20:11)
Definitely my children. After my kid's dad committed suicide, I was in a relationship immediately. And they presented as a very caring parental figure for my kids. But as soon as we were alone, and they had me living in an apartment away from family and a support system, they shifted to being very to me and my kids.
And so I started to defend my children's right to exist without getting harmed. And
they in turn, as a partner, were telling me that they were going to hurt themselves.
Jennifer Lehr (20:51)
Elaine has picked emotionally fragile people and people with addictions. This partner she's talking about here threatened self harm. And he did that, after she already had a partner who committed
which was undoubtedly traumatic for Elaine. When someone threatens self harm,
They don't have a strong enough self to emotionally regulate through whatever the stress, the stressor or the trigger is, and they're trying to get their needs met by trying to force the other person to show up for them. But it can also be very manipulative and abusive to do that to someone else.
Elaine (21:34)
And I was a bad parent. I didn't know what I was And that was the recent partner as well. They were telling me I didn't know what I was doing as a parent.
and it's been seven years of parenting now, I have a pretty good grasp of what my kids need over people coming in for the first time. So when I...
Jennifer Lehr (21:54)
Right,
and so obviously that would have been very hurtful that they even said that.
Elaine (21:59)
Yeah, yeah, and I'm trying to tell them, my dog is getting a little crazy over here. She has attachment issues right now. Play with me. Yeah, so I.
Jennifer Lehr (22:12)
Okay, if the dog wants to be in the podcast, that's okay.
Elaine (22:27)
for maturing for me is really telling my last partner that I know that I'm a good parent. Parenting conversations where I'm told I'm being wrong aren't an option.
for me to talk about, that's kind of my threshold. And having that boundary of your inner lives for joy, please bring joy. Do not bring more hardship or stress, because I can't physically handle it. And that would start an argument that I must be a nasty person telling this person that they don't know what they're doing. Basically flipping it
Jennifer Lehr (22:42)
Right.
Jennifer Lehr (23:07)
Elaine is also able to stand up for herself. And I don't know if this is a newly developed skill or she's had it for a while, but this is a step in the direction of healing and self-regulation. She's not just collapsing into her survival strategies. She is not just shutting down and getting lost in negative thoughts. She is holding her boundaries and she is able to recognize when her partner is attempting to manipulate her.
Elaine (23:38)
I'm really trying to hold the space for myself that I do have skills that aren't going to be undermined by people that haven't been a part of my life for very
Jennifer Lehr (23:51)
it sounds like the people are not accepting the fact that you have a right to have boundaries.
Elaine (23:57)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I don't know if there's a partner that exists in where I live that has space for my kids and my life and my And that's okay with me. I have a lot of things I would like to do, but I also know that I have that love addiction and it
Jennifer Lehr (23:59)
Right.
Elaine (24:23)
does scare me for choosing a partner.
Jennifer Lehr (24:29)
Well...
Elaine (24:29)
without
rewiring that process.
Jennifer Lehr (24:33)
Right, well, a lot of that rewiring happens in relationship where you reach a point where you're like, I can't do this, this isn't okay. Some of that rewiring can happen in 12 step groups. I don't know if you've done any of those, but they can help. And there's a bunch of, I actually can, after this podcast, send you some books that helped me a lot that might be good for you to do to start unraveling more.
Elaine (24:46)
me.
Jennifer Lehr (25:01)
I'm going to bring me in and when I realized that I have a love addiction, I made a commitment to stay in that relationship and not bail on it, even though it was with an addict. So I knew I had a problem where I bailed on people when the problems came up. And I decided in my case, and this probably could be very different than yours, but I decided
when I ended that relationship, it wouldn't be by bailing and moving immediately into another relationship. And so when that relationship finally ended, which was a four and a half year relationship, the next person I picked still had issues, but they were different and they weren't as severe. And that person I ended up marrying, that was my first husband. But I knew I couldn't let myself keep doing the same pattern. So I decided,
it didn't matter if I was uncomfortable. It didn't if I was going to end that relationship. I was going to end it Knowing that there was no one waiting for me another person wasn't in the wings waiting and that that helped me Because I had a face the part of myself that was so empty and wanted to leave into someone else as opposed to just leave because it wasn't good enough
So that's just an example of, mean, there's so many ways to heal and to navigate through this kind of stuff, which is, know, deep, heavy, intense stuff that takes years to heal. I mean, it's a huge, huge process when you have, you know, grown up in a situation where things are dangerous.
And when things are dangerous, your body doesn't know what to do. Your body gets anxious really quickly and self protective because it has to. But what I hear you saying is you're getting better and better at saying, I'm not putting up with bad behavior. You're not allowed to criticize me or how I parent. And if you do, I'm not doing this. And that's healthy. That's a really healthy thing. You know, you have to be able to, you have to be able to do that. You can't let yourself be a victim.
Elaine (27:02)
That's good.
Jennifer Lehr (27:11)
to other people who don't have the right to criticize you. Other people do not have the right to criticize you. It's not their business. And that's what you said, bring in joy and basically, support me, don't undermine me is what you're saying.
So,
are you currently single?
Elaine (27:33)
Yes, I am. I am really just focusing on things that bring me joy right now, especially in the winter to get my needs met, which is a lot of somatic movement, just laughing. And
Jennifer Lehr (27:43)
Uh-huh.
Jennifer Lehr (27:50)
Elaine's focus on joy means she's practicing developing better self-care.
Elaine (27:56)
And I've been doing a lot of embarrassment exposure therapy this last month, inadvertently. But that also just brings up
how I'm being perceived and how I perceive other people when it comes to my community. I have people in my community that were really hard on me when my kid's dad killed himself that when I see them it brings up a lot of for how they treated me and I don't want that to be
what I'm looking forward to in life is holding on to for my neighbors because they're still people that I share an energetic space in a small town.
Jennifer Lehr (28:41)
Right,
right, in a small community. you want to release the anger, but you don't have to release the disappointment, the sadness, the, you know, they didn't have your back. They blamed you for someone else's actions, which was another person's suicide, and that wasn't something that you created.
Elaine (28:55)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Lehr (29:03)
So you are trying to find a way to...
live in this community with people that didn't really understand your position, but you don't want to live in hatred.
Elaine (29:14)
Yeah, exactly. It feels bad in my body. feel like hatred is only hurting me the long run because it's raising my cortisol levels and kind of distracting me. And there's another community member that's making my family have to go to court just for me to have housing.
Jennifer Lehr (29:36)
Right.
Elaine (29:36)
And
so that's connected to my, you know, kids' livelihood and wellbeing. And I've noticed a lot of the same patterns of getting very frustrated and wanting to run away and wishing that person harm or seeing death as a solution, which is really scary to feel like that. You know, just please don't exist anymore because you're making my life hard.
Jennifer Lehr (29:57)
Right.
Elaine (30:04)
And so it comes down to, you know, holding space for other people's faults without taking them on.
Jennifer Lehr (30:11)
just because someone judged her or trespassed upon her in some way, she can hold a perspective where she allows herself her feelings, disappointment, anger, sadness, whatever they are, without being trapped in resentment and hatred.
Jennifer Lehr (30:28)
Right, No, you don't want that. That's overwhelming. Yeah. So let, I'm sure you've read about regulation and co-regulation, but I think we should talk about that for just a moment. Do you know about what those mean?
Elaine (30:42)
Sure, I try to do regulation just physically, breathing. I put my hand on my heart a lot when I'm upset. Just, you know, shaking my body and moving it out. I cry very easily to regulate myself. Co-regulation really just physical hugging and looking into.
Jennifer Lehr (31:04)
right.
Elaine (31:06)
contact and that's when I get upset with partners I drop my eyes and I find it like a workout to make eye contact again.
Jennifer Lehr (31:17)
because you don't feel trusting.
Elaine (31:20)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Lehr (31:22)
I'm assuming that the trust is gone, so you're breaking contact. And the person might not be safe to trust or have eye contact with. But if you're in a relationship that you're working on that has potential, then you want to learn how to maintain eye contact or drop it for a while and then bring it back so that you can continue trying. But you can't do that unless the person is safe for you. And I'm guessing that safety is gonna be a big.
Elaine (31:23)
like.
Thank you.
Jennifer Lehr (31:50)
that needs to be worked out with whoever you work a relationship out with because if you don't feel safe, the defenses come up
Elaine (31:57)
Okay.
Jennifer Lehr (31:58)
which I call survival strategies.
Jennifer Lehr (32:00)
I don't know exactly what kind of trauma Elaine has experienced historically. I know that a restraining order was put on her father and that contact was broken for a number of years. And I know from what she has told me that she was definitely impacted by trauma. Emotional safety and trust are important in all relationships. But with someone who has a trauma history, they don't always know who is safe and who isn't.
and they may put up with unsafe behavior.
So while it's important to know how to co-regulate and connect in a relationship, it's more important to make sure the person they're with is safe to connect with. Otherwise, the survival skills developed during stress and trauma
serve an important purpose until that person learns new skills that enable them to protect themselves without going into older behaviors.
skills that were developed because they are protective when they don't feel safe.
Jennifer Lehr (33:03)
So what you did with your father was a survival strategy. You had to survive a difficult situation. So you, you know, got rid of him and he got rid of you, unfortunately. He didn't, it sounds like he didn't even try to make amends or connect, which probably created even more distrust.
Elaine (33:19)
Thank
Yeah.
Jennifer Lehr (33:25)
Cause you're just a kid. I mean, he had a responsibility. He was the parent. He had a responsibility to find a way to make amends, fix his shit and, you know, offer you connection. And you didn't get that. can, I heard that. So that left you with a big wounding and very difficult to trust. And that may be why you're working things out with men as opposed to women.
right now because the trust, don't know what your relationship was like with your mom, but it sounds like there was a very big trust issue with your father.
Elaine (33:59)
Yeah, and he was a kleptomaniac, drug addict, and still to this day sees the past as something my mom did by disconnecting us and still really hasn't taken accountability for his role in us not seeing each other for about eight years.
Jennifer Lehr (34:00)
So to heal that.
right. And so.
Elaine (34:27)
And so that was never solved
all.
Jennifer Lehr (34:29)
Yeah, so you don't have any closure there except cutting him out it sounds like.
Jennifer Lehr (34:34)
Elaine's father seems to be responsible for a lot of her trauma. And again, I don't know the full story, but what is clear is he still hasn't matured into a person who can be accountable. He's still a victim insisting that what happened was someone else's fault, which means she still can't rely on him as a father she can lean into safely.
Elaine (34:58)
Yeah, and I still let him in once in a while, you know, because I feel bad he's getting older and can't take care of himself. I don't want to regret my care for him. But it's, God, it's never been healed. I see this long string of my last relationships just one after the other. Some people I don't even remember.
being with because I block it out. It was just something that I did.
Jennifer Lehr (35:28)
Right, So more of an unconscious activity than a conscious decision.
Elaine (35:35)
Yeah, definitely. It just kind of became a personality to just sleep with whoever was physically next to me from high school on. And it's never worked out in my favor.
Jennifer Lehr (35:56)
Right, yeah. So yeah, that goes back to the incredible need to find a sense of security and love and the feelings that come up that you're trying to create or have in yourself through connection. And that's normal, given your history. People with way less traumatic histories have that. You have a huge trauma history and that really is difficult.
You know, the part of you that really wants to find someone to connect, to find that safe relationship, safe intimate relationship is seeking. I mean, I can hear there's a yearning not only to heal yourself and provide a good home for your children, but to create a relationship that's nourishing for both people.
Elaine (36:43)
Yeah, I have doubts in myself that I can also be a nurturing, healing person based on just muscle memory. I would like to kind of reset that muscle memory so that I can see what it's like to react and not love bombing.
Jennifer Lehr (36:54)
Right.
Elaine (37:05)
Not saying I love you immediately Because I mean how do I know how do I really know?
Jennifer Lehr (37:12)
Yeah.
Well, you don't really know. However, like you were talking about chemicals in your body, you can know that the chemicals, because when we fall in love, it's all chemicals. mean, obviously there's a bigger piece, a big intuitive piece that knows or doesn't know, or there's a big piece of, yeah, there's possibility here, but it's until you get into the hard work of it all, it's chemicals.
and a feeling and you won't, don't know for nobody knows, I mean, you know, you might know and say, Oh, I'm to marry that person. Like I knew I was going to marry my first husband when I met him. I just knew it. It was there. I was like, I'm going to marry that man before we dated, before we kissed before anything. I don't know. saw it, but it's still just chemicals until you get to know who you're dealing with. And then you're dealing, you know, dealing with their stuff, my stuff. I had stuff, his stuff. He definitely had stuff and
You know, it's not till you get to that stage where you really know is this relationship going to survive or not? Is this other person solid enough to handle me? so I talked to someone recently who I've known for many years and she, she talked about how she wants to run when she's in relationships and she's afraid the other person will abandon her. But she happened to get a partner. This is her second, she's getting married it will be her second marriage.
She happened to get a partner who when she would get upset, would say, I'm not gonna leave you. I'm not gonna abandon you. No matter what you do, I'm not leaving. And because of her own trauma and insecurities, that helped her take a deep breath and settle. That's what she needed to hear. And when she started getting that, instead of her previous partner was very avoidant and didn't wanna talk about feelings or know what she was feeling, that couldn't work for her.
Elaine (38:59)
Thank you.
Jennifer Lehr (39:08)
She needed someone to say, I'm here for you. I'll listen to you. Even when she was behaving in a way that was difficult. And that, you know, that is someone who had a much more secure upbringing than she had. And that, that helped her. Whatever work she did, she drew this new person in with these qualities that were different than her previous partners. And that's the hope. That's the dream. That's what you're aiming for.
Elaine (39:15)
Cool.
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Lehr (39:37)
to do enough work that you draw in someone who says, I can handle you, I'm bigger than all this stuff and I'll be here even if you freak out.
Elaine (39:49)
Yeah, that sounds really lovely to have. And I think it's going to take a long time for me to feel like I can trust my intuition regarding relationships. I trust my intuition around so many other And it's really, there's a story in the women
Who Run with Wolves
Jennifer Lehr (40:16)
Yeah,
Elaine (40:18)
There's a story that she tells about this young girl who gets married without really knowing this older gentleman. And she finds a room full of dead bodies. And she tries to hide that she didn't see it, but the blood
from the bodies or the key that she'd used to open the door is staining her clothes and she can't unsee it. And I feel lot like that character that I have seen just the darkest people that I trusted at first and then I start to see really dark, scary sides of them that I just assume that there's
just these dark sides to everybody and what are they and how can I find that out or I'm just assuming now that that's what men especially have in their heads and or they're already married you know which is all the good ones are married already and what's wrong with everybody else so
Jennifer Lehr (41:31)
Well,
right, right. Actually, some of the good ones get divorced from bad women and then they're available.
So don't lose hope there. And who knows, you may end up with a woman, who knows? But yeah, that's a great story. I don't think everybody has darkness. I think everybody has areas where they're blind or areas where they're not developed or areas where they have their own shit they have to deal with. But I don't think everybody is dangerous.
Elaine (42:05)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Lehr (42:08)
you know, maybe, time to start doing an affirmation. Please send me men who aren't dangerous, you know, safe. I want people who are safe for me to come into my life. I only accept people who are safe for me, because, you know, that's a huge, huge thing and really, really important for you to not go through more experiences that feel traumatic, to continue expressing your boundaries, get rid of the people who are unsafe as quickly as possible.
Elaine (42:20)
it.
Jennifer Lehr (42:37)
and keep asking that safe people be sent to you.
Elaine (42:41)
that. I like
Jennifer Lehr (42:42)
You know,
that's, yeah,
Elaine (42:45)
something I can
do easily each day is that affirmation.
Jennifer Lehr (42:51)
Yeah,
mean, yeah, your intention out there. That's half of, know, a lot of it's intention and then follow through, you know, persistence, not giving up. So you set the intention out, you see what gets delivered to you, and then you try to hear, what am I supposed to do with this? Am I supposed to work with this? Am I supposed to walk away from this? What is the intention of this particular situation? And it's not like, it's not always clear.
Sometimes you have to talk to people about it and sometimes you just have to listen to yourself. But I'm in a work situation. It's like the intention is clearly persistence. And I wanted to give up a million times. It's like, you're supposed to continue and get the story out of your head that it should be different. Because I could end up in a story. It should be different. Well, it's not different. This is it. Keep persisting.
You know, and you learn as you go through things to start separating out, like one of the early learnings I had in my life was separating out the difference between my voice of intuition and my voice of fear. And that was huge for me because they were merged when I was younger. I didn't know what was intuition and I didn't know what was fear. And you have to be able to separate those two things out. So you can listen to the right voice. You don't want to listen to the fear voice. You want to listen to the voice that says,
Yes, it's time to leave, or the voice that says, hang in there a little longer, you've got something to learn, know, whatever it is.
Elaine (44:22)
Yeah.
Jennifer Lehr (44:25)
So
that's, yeah.
Elaine (44:28)
I think
Having a list of priorities in my head of it's not romance, love first, and then safety, we'll figure it out later. Having safety come first and having the rest follow.
Jennifer Lehr (44:44)
Absolutely. Yep, yep, absolutely. In your case, safety has to come first.
For sure, 100%.
Elaine (44:54)
Yeah, thank you so much.
Jennifer Lehr (44:55)
Yeah, just
try to, I mean, you might not be able to always listen to that, but if you know it, you can come back to
Elaine (45:01)
Okay. Yeah.
Jennifer Lehr (45:06)
I just wanna ask you if there's anything else you wanna bring up or if you wanna talk about what your dream is, your relationship dream or anything like that.
Elaine (45:15)
Well, I self-identify as polyamorous and I'm still figuring out what that means for me in my future relationships. I've had primarily monogamous relationships. I've been in one polyamorous relationship about 10 years ago. That was really beautiful. It felt really good to be able to have two partners at the same time and we all came together.
to talk about emotions and really it felt good. But I've been in only monogamous relationships since then and really trying to identify what that means for future relationships. My want to be with multiple partners at the same time. But also trying to heal from trauma at the same time. seems like adding
more people is going to be something that comes later.
Jennifer Lehr (46:16)
Well, you can, know, life is about experimenting and trying things and you'll learn as you are in different situations, what actually does and doesn't work for you, what you can and can't handle, what these other people can and can't handle. And if everyone can handle it and is happy, great, but you're gonna figure this out by living. You're not gonna know, you're gonna live through it and the living will inform you of the answer,
Elaine (46:41)
Hmm
Jennifer Lehr (46:43)
Thank you for joining me in this podcast. I hope you found it both informative and interesting. And if you enjoyed it, please You can also find me on social media under either WeConcile or my name, Jennifer J. Lehr LMFT. And just as a reminder, we have a relationship app called WeConcile, which will...
teach you what you need to learn to create a much more secure and happy relationship. And that is in the Apple App and Google Play stores. Thanks for listening.