Why I Left My Husband - And Why I Came Back
"I want to give them (other people) hope."
In this episode of the Yearning Heart Podcast, host Jennifer Lehr speaks with Samantha Shoemaker, a certified professional life coach, about her personal journey through postpartum depression, relationship struggles, and eventual transformation. Samantha shares her experiences of navigating the challenges of parenting while dealing with post partum depression, the importance of communication and connection in relationships, and how separation led to self-discovery and personal growth. They discuss the role of therapy in their relationship transformation, the impact of childhood experiences on adult attachment styles, and the significance of accountability in repairing relationships. Samantha now helps women navigate life's transitions through her coaching, emphasizing the importance of independence and self-awareness in relationships.
· Samantha Shoemaker shares her journey through postpartum depression and relationship struggles.
· Navigating the challenges of parenting while dealing with mental health issues.
· The importance of communication and connection in a healthy relationship.
· Separation can lead to self-discovery and personal growth.
· Therapy played a crucial role in their relationship transformation.
· Recognizing toxic patterns in relationships is essential for healing.
· The impact of childhood experiences on adult attachment styles.
· Accountability is key in repairing relationships after infidelity.
· Healthy relationships require ongoing effort and commitment from both partners.
· Samantha now helps women navigate life's transitions through her coaching.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Samantha's Journey
02:56 The Breakdown of Marriage and Infidelity
06:10 The Path to Healing and Reconnection
11:34 Lessons Learned About Love and Relationships
17:18 The Role of Communication and Connection
22:32 Navigating Parenting Through Divorce
27:32 Ongoing Growth and Independence
31:05 Applying Lessons in Coaching
33:51 Rebuilding Relationships: The Power of Therapeutic Work
TRANSCRIPT
Samantha Shoemaker (00:00)
There's a stigma around infidelity in our society that infidelity is always malicious. there may be some cases where it is, but it's not always that way. It's usually something that's this lack of communication, this disconnection that's leading to this point.
Jennifer Lehr (00:16)
Right,
Jennifer Lehr (00:29)
I'm Jennifer Lehr, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Educator, Author, and your Host, and the founder of the WeConcile app to help people with their relationships.
Our guest today is Samantha and Samantha is going to be sharing her really courageous and vulnerable story with us about how she divorced her husband and then came to realize that he was someone she loved, someone who cared about her and they got back together and now have a really secure functioning.
relationship
This is a really good example of how we can fall in love. And then the stressors of our lives make our relationship more difficult and we can fall out of love. Both Samantha and her husband did a ton of therapeutic work, and rebuilt themselves and their relationship from the ground up to have a really successful relationship.
I think that you'll find this podcast really helpful.
Jennifer Lehr (01:27)
Today we have Samantha Shoemaker with us and Samantha is a certified professional life coach and founder of Samantha Shoemaker Life Coaching. Samantha helps women navigate life's transitions and reconnect with their authentic selves so they can create lives that feel truly aligned. She's here today to share her deeply personal journey
and one that includes the heartbreak of infidelity, the pain of divorce, and the healing and growth that ultimately led to her reuniting with her husband. Samantha's story is one of courage, redemption, transformation, and the kind of self-discovery that only comes through walking through fire and choosing to grow. Her work as a coach is rooted in honest conversation, deep self-trust, and helping women come home to themselves, not by fixing who they are.
but by honoring who they have become. So Samantha, welcome. I'm really happy to talk to you today. your story is really interesting and I think it will be helpful for a lot of people. Yeah. So first just to give us a sketch outline of what happened and I'll say it and you can correct me that you were in a marriage. You left the marriage.
Samantha Shoemaker (02:32)
Thank you. I'm happy to be here.
Jennifer Lehr (02:47)
due to problems in the marriage. And then you and your husband, your ex-husband now got back together in a happy functioning relationship. And yeah, that's hard to do. So do you wanna just give me a brief outline of your story and then we'll go deeper into it.
Samantha Shoemaker (02:56)
That's correct.
Yeah, absolutely. So my story began about eight years ago when we, let's see, we had a three year old and a one year old. We were kind of heading down a path of disconnection, not communicating. And as you can imagine, our relationship wasn't thriving. We were
in the thick of parenting and, I was dealing with post-partum depression with both of my children. That was really tough. I didn't really talk about it at the time, didn't really feel supported, didn't really know how to express those feelings.
And so, and then after my second child was born, my son,
I mean, I would say it was probably worse. I kind of ignored it the first time. And then the second time I was like, okay, we got to, I've got to do something about this. I've got to talk about it. Tried talking about it with my husband and he didn't know how to support me. he to no fault of his own. I didn't know how to express my needs as well. So it was, there was a disconnect there. basically I didn't feel seen and heard. Wasn't being supported by him.
And so this led to further disconnection. I then became involved with an emotional connection with someone that I worked with. And so that's, know, this initially, this was unintentional. I, this felt good. Like this is what I wanted from my husband. This,
Jennifer Lehr (04:40)
The attention felt good.
Samantha Shoemaker (04:41)
The attention, yeah. Being seen, being heard, listened to. Ultimately, that's what I wanted for my husband. I didn't know how to get it. I wasn't getting it. So that continued. It was innocent in the beginning. Wasn't intentionally trying to do anything or hurt my husband. And next thing I know, I became more disconnected with my husband.
We were doing lots of therapy at the time. He knew there was a problem. We had talked about this. by that point, he actually started making some changes. He started making positive changes, but I was so far removed. I was so checked out of our marriage that it was too little, too late. so, fast forward a few months towards the end of that year and...
we decided to separate. So we decided to separate for about a month and then ultimately decided to divorce. So I wanted to divorce. I was pretty much done. And we did 50-50 custody with our children. So I moved out and for about a year, ⁓ it was probably for about a year before we actually reconnected again.
But during that time, I quickly realized that this relationship that I entered into was quite toxic. This was a narcissist. Didn't recognize it at the time. was a roller coaster of a relationship where things would be fine for two to three days, and then it would blow up, and then it would repair.
And then the cycle would happen all over again. And so about a year after that was going on, my husband and I were talking about our children. We would meet frequently to like discuss the needs of our children. He brought up to me that he knew what was going on. He knew everything. And he was worried about me. So, I ended up ending it with that other person.
the relationship, it was ugly, it blew up, was not good. And ultimately then we started to reconnect and we wanted to work on our marriage. We're ready to do this. I firmly believe we had to separate and work on ourselves individually in order for us to come back together better and stronger.
Jennifer Lehr (06:52)
Right. And okay, and now your relationship with your husband is good, is that correct?
Samantha Shoemaker (06:58)
Our relationship is great.
Jennifer Lehr (07:00)
It's great.
Good. Okay. So I have a, one thing that obviously you've gone through some big emotional changes and growth, and I'm curious who you were at the beginning of this, other than frustrated and postpartum depression, but who you were as a person, your understanding of love and what makes, what makes love work and then who you became through this whole process.
Samantha Shoemaker (07:23)
Yeah, who I was then eight years ago and probably most of my life was an insecure person. Didn't know who I was. Didn't really know what it at the time what it took to be in a relationship and what that looked like. Now I know who I am. I'm stronger because of this experience. And I would say, I believe that
it takes communication and connection. Like those are like foundational for a relationship to be healthy. And so I would say through that time in this process, we have learned that how to communicate. We have the tools now through lots of therapy. We know what to do when an argument or a disagreement comes up. We know how to handle it rather than getting defensive.
and disengaging and letting it blow up. So we have the tools now to mitigate that and to not let a small problem become a big problem because it's what essentially happened.
Jennifer Lehr (08:29)
So it sounds like you were originally anxiously attached, like you wanted more. You were hungry for something that wasn't happening. And I'm assuming your husband was probably more avoidant. And yeah.
What happened in the first therapy that didn't work? Why didn't the therapy work?
Samantha Shoemaker (08:47)
The therapy didn't work at the time because I wasn't all in. when we were going through, we were in the thick of it. I had already been processing and internalizing my feelings about the relationship and that it wasn't going well. I wasn't feeling heard and seen at the time. And so I had already processed, I was like a step ahead of him in the processing. So when we got to therapy, I was kind of checked out. I was like,
I'm done. I, this isn't working. Like he was actually at that time ready to show up and he was ready to do this, but first I wasn't receiving it. I checked out. So that's why it didn't work because we were not, I wasn't all in.
Jennifer Lehr (09:23)
Right.
Right, and had you been all in, do you think that therapy would have helped?
Samantha Shoemaker (09:33)
Absolutely.
Jennifer Lehr (09:34)
So it was more that you weren't, already said, this isn't working. I found someone who's willing to talk to me and connect emotionally. I don't want this anymore. And because your foot was already out the door, you, weren't that interested in what was happening in therapy. Yeah. And then you went through this process of recognizing this other per going through a divorce and recognizing this other person that you were involved with was
Samantha Shoemaker (09:50)
Exactly.
Jennifer Lehr (10:03)
not who you thought he was. And not a friend, like your husband, sounds like you were co-parenting and he was a friend. Yeah, so you started seeing the contrast between their character. And character is something most people don't see. We're in our hormones, this feels like love, or we're frustrated or whatever, but we don't necessarily see who is the character of this person I'm dealing with. Is this really a good person, a trustworthy person, a person who...
Samantha Shoemaker (10:06)
Exactly.
something.
Jennifer Lehr (10:32)
isn't just hungry for me to be there for them, but wants to give to me too.
Samantha Shoemaker (10:38)
Absolutely.
Jennifer Lehr (10:39)
Yeah.
And what kind of changes did your husband have to make to decide? So obviously he lost you. He was like, I don't want to lose you. I don't want to lose you. I'm willing to change from however his behavior was that was avoidant. He was said, I'm willing to show up, but it was too late and he sort of hung in there and still was cared about you. But what changes
Not that you know his work, but just so we understand, what do you think his work was?
Samantha Shoemaker (11:10)
His work was, know just from talking with him about this, this was a long time ago, and we've talked obviously a lot about this. He made his focus about the kids, our children, and being the best dad that he could, and taking care of himself. So he made that his focus, and that was his drive.
Jennifer Lehr (11:34)
And that made him available to the whole connecting to the whole family. I mean, because his heart opened to his kids, he was gonna be there as opposed to not be there. And you saw that also.
Samantha Shoemaker (11:47)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
And that's what I wanted all along, right? I did want that all along.
Jennifer Lehr (11:52)
Right, you wanted it and he wasn't able to do it. And then you both worked individually. And like you both had your own therapy or whatever, your own process going on. And how did your therapy help you post divorce?
Samantha Shoemaker (11:57)
we did.
We, once we actually reunited and we were trying to work on our marriage and going through therapy, we were both committed to it. We were both all in. We were like, we are like, we want to make our marriage work. We want to do this. We realized that we want to be together and that this is the most important thing. And we want to be there for our kids.
It wasn't just about our kids, but we loved each other. We love each other. We want to be there for our family. We want to be stronger because of it.
Jennifer Lehr (12:41)
And was that individual therapy or couples therapy? How did you move from, what happened there? You did, did you do individual as well? You both, so you did, you did a lot of work. You're like, we're going to do this, whatever it takes. And what do think you learned about yourself, about being insecure versus a secure attachment? Like, how did you change internally?
Samantha Shoemaker (12:46)
We did couples therapy.
Mm-hmm.
⁓ when we were apart, I was forced to be independent. And before that I was very codependent, very insecure, codependent, didn't have any sense of self. So when I was on my own, I had this new sense of independence. That was like something good that came out of this. I was, I was my own person. And so taking that back into our marriage, I
Jennifer Lehr (13:14)
Okay.
Samantha Shoemaker (13:33)
I just had this new found sense of independence of like who I was.
Jennifer Lehr (13:38)
So it
almost sounds like, how do I put this? The divorce was a good thing in some ways because you had to learn to find your own feet.
Samantha Shoemaker (13:49)
Absolutely.
Jennifer Lehr (13:50)
your own grounding, your own person. And getting divorced forced you to say, I have to find myself, who am I? And not just expect it to all come from the partner who wasn't delivering anyway. that's a cycle people get caught in. It's a avoidant, anxious attachment combo cycle where the anxious one is not fully themselves. The avoidant one,
pulls away and the anxious one is looking for how do I fill this empty hole because I'm not a whole person yet and this person isn't doing it. And so you went and grew yourself into more of a full person and then you could more easily deal with being in a relationship without being having needs but not being starving to death.
Samantha Shoemaker (14:43)
Exactly. And you know, I don't regret any of this as horrible as most of it was. I can now see the purpose behind it now that we're farther away from it. It was a blessing. Like it probably saved our marriage, to be honest. I don't know if we would have survived it if this did not happen. So I think as unfortunate as it was, it had to happen. Like we had to grow separately and then come back together for this.
Jennifer Lehr (15:00)
Right.
Right,
he had to realize my family's valuable enough that I'm not gonna keep running away. And you had to realize, I can stand on my own two feet and be a full person and engage from that place. Yeah, that's a big shift for both of you it sounds like. How did the kids do through this process?
Samantha Shoemaker (15:30)
they did good. mean, they were one in three at the time. I'm sure subconsciously it was hard and things that they can't verbalize. But we both just stepped up and tried to be the best parents that we could be during that time. I've had to work through a lot of guilt that I had carried from that. but...
Sometimes they'll bring things up about that time. They'll ask about like my daughter, my oldest will ask questions, but that they, but they don't really, they, ⁓ I think they did okay with it. I mean, I know kids are resilient, but I'm sure there is probably some subconscious trauma. Unfortunately that resulted from it.
Jennifer Lehr (16:12)
Although it sounds like they're, because the family healed, they're probably part of that healing. Yeah. And how, so obviously we don't just come into the world with insecure attachment. It comes from, well, we can come into the world with high sensitivity and fear, because I did. But it also comes from how our parents are tuned to us when we were growing up.
not to blame parents because it's not their fault. They're generally doing their best, not always, but often, but they have their own gaps and issues that they didn't receive. But what do you think happened growing up that caused you to not fully know how to be in a functional relationship?
Samantha Shoemaker (16:52)
Yeah, well, I grew up in a relatively normal childhood, no trauma. it was a two-parent home, loving, I think what I recognize now is that I probably didn't feel seen and heard. I didn't know how to express my feelings then, and I don't think it was modeled to me on really expressing your feelings and
sitting with what you might be feeling in an experience and discussing it, learning about it, it was just, this happened and let's move on. So, and to no fault of my parents, they were doing the best they could with what they had. I don't fault them at all. So I think that's probably where it came from, honestly.
Jennifer Lehr (17:26)
Right.
Right,
So they, for whatever reason, didn't know really how to help you process your feelings and talk about them as you were growing up. And so you went out into the world with a deficit in terms of being able to say, hey, this is what I am, this is what I'm feeling, this is what I need. that, obviously that's something that everybody who wants to be in a functional, secure relationship has to learn, solve, heal. and you did.
Samantha Shoemaker (18:06)
did. I out the other side and I, there is, that everyone's story is going to end up like ours, but I believe that there is hope and that, for it, for the possibility to come out the other side stronger.
Jennifer Lehr (18:07)
You did.
Well, you also, and this is also a thing that comes up with a lot of marriages and divorce type situations is your husband wanted to work it out. And then you came around and wanted to work it out. It works if both people want to work it out and are willing to do the work and change, you can do it. It's when you either don't want to do the work like,
You might want to keep the partner, but if you aren't willing to say, hey, I have something that's not quite right or a problem or an issue and I need to work on this so that I can be a good partner for my partner. If you can't do that, you are not going to be able to salvage the relationship. Cause it'll just be the same relationship. And so you had the luck that both of you,
were willing to work and change.
And both of you, it sounds like took responsibility for your own self. It wasn't all about he did this or she did that, that somewhere that went away and went into, I need to look at myself and he needs to look at himself and we can do this in a more supportive way instead of, in a We way, instead of a blaming way.
Samantha Shoemaker (19:15)
Exactly.
Exactly. Yeah, we both took responsibility for our own part in the situation because at first I did heavily blame myself for this. It happened. And then I just through lots of therapy realized that it wasn't just me. Like there was obviously my husband involved. And so there's two parts here.
Jennifer Lehr (19:43)
You did.
Right,
it wasn't like you were the bad girl. was like, there was stuff happening on both ends and you were able, because of that understanding, you were able to release your sense of guilt or shame or whatever you were feeling. Yeah.
Samantha Shoemaker (20:07)
Exactly. And I think
There's a stigma around infidelity in our society that infidelity is always malicious. there may be some cases where it is, but it's not always that way. It's usually something that's this lack of communication, this disconnection that's leading to this point.
Jennifer Lehr (20:24)
Right,
So the lack of connection is what sort of drove you to try to connect with someone else. And then the other big thing you're talking about that we haven't really named is accountability. You both took accountability for your part. And that's another thing where if you don't take accountability, well, not much is gonna change. accountability is a big cement.
piece of cement, help holding a relationship together. Yes, I did that, I'm accountable for that. And that to be accountable, you have to be willing to look at yourself, you have to be willing to tolerate your feelings of shame or guilt. If you can't tolerate those feelings, you can't take accountability. Which is why being able to tolerate feelings, it's one of the reasons why feelings are so important. Because if we're pushing them aside, then we act out, not that you're acting out, I'm just saying we.
generally we will act out if our feelings don't have a place in our lives.
Samantha Shoemaker (21:21)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Lehr (21:22)
what have you learned in terms of, what have you learned in the big picture about relationships?
Samantha Shoemaker (21:29)
I've learned that communication and connection are foundational. They are foundational to a healthy relationship in order to make that work and it has to come from both people.
Jennifer Lehr (21:42)
And
when you say communication, can you give me an understanding of how your communication changed? Like This is what I used to do and this is what I do now.
Samantha Shoemaker (21:51)
Right. When we would communicate in the past, it would be like in our, you're arguing about something and we'd raise our voices. it would kind of escalate from there and then some, would get defensive. So we would both get defensive and then shut down.
Jennifer Lehr (22:05)
you both shut down.
Samantha Shoemaker (22:07)
And then the communication would stop until usually the next day and then it would repair to some extent. now we recognize if we have a disagreement or an issue, some kind of challenge that we have the tools now to say, okay, this is going on. We can talk about it and say, I'm feeling this or whatnot. We can really...
talk about our feelings in the situation that I'm feeling this way, you're feeling, or he's feeling this way, and just go from there, really. So it's recognizing our feelings. what we're feeling in this moment.
Jennifer Lehr (22:44)
Right.
Right. And talking and vulnerably talking about your feelings and your needs and all that. Yeah. And then you said the other thing was connection. what was your connection like before? And what is it like now?
Samantha Shoemaker (22:50)
Exactly.
Yeah, our connection before, I that's hard question to answer. It was very disconnected. So it wasn't a cohesive connection. It was very fragmented. And now there is just this deeper connection because we can be vulnerable and talk about our feelings and really communicate at a safe level, really feeling seen and heard while we're communicating.
So that creates the connection for us.
Jennifer Lehr (23:33)
And how long were you married before this whole, before the divorce? Seven years. So it took about seven years of, I'm assuming you had that, fall in love stage and that went on for a while. And then the problems start surfacing and you didn't have a way to resolve them. And so eventually it got more and more disconnected and fragmented until the big eruption and then the work, the repair and the new relationship.
Samantha Shoemaker (23:37)
seven years.
Yeah.
Jennifer Lehr (23:59)
Yeah,
such a good story. I think it's really inspiring. I mean, it does happen when people get separated, but you don't hear it happening when people get divorced that often
Samantha Shoemaker (24:03)
Thank you.
Jennifer Lehr (24:10)
Do you think that you taught each other how to treat each other differently?
Samantha Shoemaker (24:17)
Absolutely. Yes.
Jennifer Lehr (24:18)
And
Samantha Shoemaker (24:19)
⁓
Jennifer Lehr (24:19)
Yes. So we often
teach people how to treat us without realizing it just by how we behave. Like if somebody is yelling at me and I don't say stop that right now or I'm leaving the room, they'll keep yelling, for example. And I'm sure you guys treat each other differently than you used to and wondering how you helped your partner understand how to treat you differently.
Like, did you have to stand up for yourself? Like, set boundaries? Like, did it go into that category of action at all?
Samantha Shoemaker (24:53)
So eight years ago when we were in the thick of this and going through this, I could not speak up for myself. I did not have a voice. I did not know how to use my voice and to say what I needed and wanted. And so that with that going on, I, I, that's how I let people treat me. I didn't have a voice. And so now I, I can speak up for myself. I, I am, I have this sense of
independence and I'm more secure in who I am. So I feel comfortable and safe speaking out for myself. And so in turn that, I'm going to be treated differently.
Jennifer Lehr (25:34)
did he make any of those kind of changes where you had to treat him differently?
Samantha Shoemaker (25:39)
Yes, absolutely. I probably wasn't sometimes like the kindest person when we were going through this. so probably wasn't listening to him. I would be kind of talking over him and so not giving him the space and time to speak what he needs to say.
Jennifer Lehr (25:57)
or did he even find what was going on inside of himself, right? So you've learned to give him more space and more autonomy in who he is. Yeah.
Samantha Shoemaker (26:05)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Lehr (26:06)
Right now, now that you've gone through this healing process and how long has it been since you've repaired? I know it's ongoing, since the beginning of the repair, how long has it been since that?
Samantha Shoemaker (26:19)
about seven years ago.
Jennifer Lehr (26:21)
So you're in like a 15 year relationship at this point, or since you got married, something like that. So it's long, long term. How long did you know him before you got married?
Samantha Shoemaker (26:26)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Five years. We've known each other for 20 years now.
Jennifer Lehr (26:34)
Wow, so five years before you got married and you didn't during those previous five years you didn't realize we are missing some skills.
Samantha Shoemaker (26:44)
I wasn't and I think it is attributed to me not really being secure in who I was and couldn't speak up for myself and I was so desperate for at the time for connection and for love.
Jennifer Lehr (26:58)
It just fell into a pattern and you kept going and then you're the kids which probably created stress and the depression and it all just blew up at some point and then yeah, so cool actually. So you've been in this repaired relationship for quite a while now and what is still difficult?
Samantha Shoemaker (27:19)
Well, there's always going to be difficult moments and challenges like, that doesn't go away with marriage and any relationship that we're always going to have. There's going to be something I think if we didn't, it wouldn't be healthy. I think it's healthy.
Jennifer Lehr (27:32)
Right. Yeah, no,
no, I don't want, yeah, I just don't want people to think it's like a fairy tale because obviously there's still places where, mean, the Gottmans talks about the, I forget how they word it. There's the reconcilable differences and the irreconcilable, the differences that are just like deep philosophical differences that just can't be bridged. And you just have to agree to disagree and put it sort of away because there's some things you can't do anything about.
Samantha Shoemaker (27:53)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Lehr (28:00)
And then the other thing that happens is wounding. we come in with our own wounds and often my wound will hit your wound in a relationship. So our wounds will hit each other and will trigger each other and getting each other to understand our wounding is helpful. Do you feel like that was part of your process?
Samantha Shoemaker (28:21)
Yeah, I think so. think it's definitely not a fairy tale. So I think like I said before, we have the tools now when we encounter an argument or a disagreement, some kind of challenge that we handle it differently. So yeah, we still have those things where we have disagreements and we talk about it. But we talk about it differently now. We can communicate differently and express our feelings and our needs in order to feel seen and feel heard.
and still have that connection.
Jennifer Lehr (28:53)
And at this point, sounds like you have a secure relationship where nobody's worried about the other person running out the back door. Right? So you both move from this insecure attachment to you've created a secure attachment with a lot of help, but a lot of fortitude and persistence and desire and the work. Yeah. Yeah.
Samantha Shoemaker (28:59)
Not at all. we're very.
Yeah.
Jennifer Lehr (29:16)
Right now, what is your growing edge in the relationship?
Samantha Shoemaker (29:21)
edge.
Jennifer Lehr (29:22)
Like is there a specific place that you're learning or working in yourself?
Samantha Shoemaker (29:28)
Yes. So, you know, this was seven, eight years ago, right, that this happened. And like I said, I became more independent from this process. Well, what I have noticed is that as we're getting farther away from that, we're getting more comfortable. We may be like slipping into like old habits where a codependency is kind of what I mean, where I'm maybe not feeling as independent in some areas. So I've actually recognized that and this is something my husband and I have talked about.
that I feel like I'm starting to lose myself again, where I'm not feeling independent. I'm feeling a little too reliant. I obviously in a relationship, a marriage, there's some level of co-dependence there, but I feel like I'm losing myself. And so this is something that we've talked about and I'm trying to reestablish this independence in myself. So it's ongoing process, ongoing work.
Jennifer Lehr (30:18)
Right.
Right, so for you, it's ongoing to say, hey, remember you're an individual and do things that reinforce that.
Samantha Shoemaker (30:32)
Exactly. So, I've done a lot of self work.
Jennifer Lehr (30:32)
Yeah.
Yeah. And awareness is part of it. Like if you don't, if you don't have the awareness, you don't even see what you're doing. If you have the awareness, you can say, Hey, uh-oh, red flag. And then you get back on it you're like, okay, I am independent. This is okay. I don't need it to happen this way or whatever the thing is. And it's a lot of self-talk can happen in that area. Yeah. Yeah.
what do you want to add?
Samantha Shoemaker (31:02)
Mmm.
I guess I would just want to say that, like I mentioned, not all stories are going to end like ours. It's a unique situation, but if someone's going through this, that I want to give them hope that it is possible to come out on the other side stronger and being better together because of something like this, doesn't, obviously there's certain cases where it might not end well and maybe that's best for both parties. ⁓
Jennifer Lehr (31:22)
Yeah.
Samantha Shoemaker (31:32)
there is possibility for that.
Jennifer Lehr (31:35)
Right, you can love your husband, fall out of love, and fall back in love. Because that's what happened. And people think, you're in love or you're not in love. And I don't think people realize, yeah, you can fall in love, fall out of love, and actually fall back in love with the same person.
Samantha Shoemaker (31:42)
Yeah.
Jennifer Lehr (31:53)
Yeah, is there anything that you're yearning for in this relationship or in love that you are still like trying to make happen?
Samantha Shoemaker (31:53)
Yeah. ⁓
necessarily, I think it's always a work in progress, like working on connection and communication. So it's, it's something that we have to work on all the time. it doesn't come easy. that's why marriages work. Right. So you have to constantly put into it if you want to get what you want out of it. So it's just constantly working on it. And
Jennifer Lehr (32:15)
Yeah.
So you can't be lazy.
Samantha Shoemaker (32:26)
No, I don't believe so.
Jennifer Lehr (32:27)
Because
it's always two different people with two different whole complicated things going on and creating that bridge is constant. Even though there's times where it's probably easier, there's gonna be times where it's more difficult. Yeah. So now how have you taken your learning and put it into your coaching?
Samantha Shoemaker (32:40)
Absolutely. Yeah.
That's a good question. Well, I am helping women navigate life's transitions, whether that could be a divorce, that could be a career change, which I've had many of those as well. could just, know, I've been feeling stuck in roles that just don't fit anymore. And I've experienced in all of those. So...
Because of what I went through, this personal story, I just feel like I'm able to really empathize with these women and really know what they're going through.
Jennifer Lehr (33:17)
it sounds like you can see, like in other words, if it's someone who's not independent enough, you can see that and help them find more independence in themself. And because you have had this huge journey, so that's opened up windows into other people's psyches for sure, I imagine.
Samantha Shoemaker (33:34)
Yeah, absolutely.
Jennifer Lehr (33:37)
Yeah, great. So
thank you really so much. It was really, lovely talking to you. And I think that you have a lot of valuable information for people.
Samantha Shoemaker (33:43)
Thank you,
Jennifer Lehr (33:51)
Thank you for joining me in this podcast. I hope you found it interesting and informative. if you did find it useful, it would be great if you could support us by subscribing or if you're listening to give us a five-star review that will help us get this work out into the world where people can learn about their relationships from other people's stories.
We are on YouTube for video, and on a number of audio platforms, Spotify, Apple Music, and more.
on social media under WeConcile or Jennifer J. Lehr, LMFT.
For those who haven't heard, I have a relationship app
both the Google and Apple app stores called Weconcile, and it is designed to help you improve your relationships. Thank you.